tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5110120806388167738.post7586118710092651580..comments2023-04-28T09:46:09.269-04:00Comments on Sitting on the Fence: For the Sake of HeavenFence Sitterhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10710804417216575955noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5110120806388167738.post-39472424709736219752011-08-05T01:15:10.715-04:002011-08-05T01:15:10.715-04:00"the Song of Songs remains an awesome ode to ..."the Song of Songs remains an awesome ode to sensual love. (Too bad that frum publications censor the English translation)"<br /><br />JRK, ArtScroll seems to have forgotten that "ain mikra yotzei midei peshuto" when it comes to Shir HaShirim.Tovahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13810096432831688198noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5110120806388167738.post-53544339918563656242011-08-03T11:54:26.793-04:002011-08-03T11:54:26.793-04:00On a certain street in Brooklyn, Ave L there is a ...On a certain street in Brooklyn, Ave L there is a shul where the lemmings are contantly on the run. Coming and going . Running, skipping to catach a minyan or whatever. Now I postulate that if you remove the belief in the coming of Moshiach- if some credible clergy would make such a statement- All the running, shaking and the fastinig would come to to gradual halt.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5110120806388167738.post-38088984710359491052011-08-03T11:08:31.483-04:002011-08-03T11:08:31.483-04:00Miami Al - I agree that historically "intent&...Miami Al - I agree that historically "intent" was far less important in Judaism than in Christianity.<br /><br />I'm not sure that marriages based on love are "a relatively new experiment in Western society". Yes, there is abundant evidence that marriages, in both Jewish and non-Jewish cultures, were often arranged for various pragmatic reasons (from strategic alliances for a king to wanting to avoid conscription into the Czar's army). However, I wouldn't call Isaac's love for Rebecca a relatively new experiment in Western society, and the Song of Songs remains an awesome ode to sensual love. (Too bad that frum publications censor the English translation)Law momhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01859590966207623757noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5110120806388167738.post-20806462075116855662011-08-03T10:39:31.966-04:002011-08-03T10:39:31.966-04:00"Additionally, every choice that one makes, e..."Additionally, every choice that one makes, even in things that are not expressly required or prohibited by Torah law, are either meritorious or sinful based on their intent."<br /><br />-- Pretty sure that this is at BEST a modern invention by Hassidism jealous of their Orhtodox Christian neighbors. For most of Jewish history, Jewish religious obligations has been defined at most by Halachot and Rabbinic decree, not "meritous or sinful intent" -- which is a very Christian concept. Halacha deals with permitted/prohibited actions, NOT permitted/prohibited intents (for those most part). Their are exceptions where a prohibited action is permitted under Halacha for certain intents, but conerns with evil appearances limits this loophole.<br /><br />"which is in stark contrast to the references to the focus on love at a secular wedding"<br /><br />What is a secular wedding? A secular wedding has no "focus," the only focus on a secular wedding is are the partners not related, of opposite genders (this requirement is state dependent). A Christian wedding has "vows" and an emphasis on loyalty, building a life, and sticking together no matter what "in sickness and in health," etc.<br /><br />At most you're defining a pop culture wedding, which is not secular, it's largely a creation of pop culture.<br /><br />Marriage has historically been based upon financial considers OR the woman being pregnant. Based upon love? A relatively new experiment in Western society.Miami Alhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02977503720972852329noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5110120806388167738.post-64970166660299865092011-08-02T16:43:51.227-04:002011-08-02T16:43:51.227-04:00Evangelicals and other Christian groups believe th...Evangelicals and other Christian groups believe that everything should be done in joyous submission to God's will. Islam teaches the same. It's essentially the same concept, just phrased differently. Hinduism also teaches submission to God in all things.SkepticalYidnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5110120806388167738.post-20823536016437312012011-08-02T13:48:48.631-04:002011-08-02T13:48:48.631-04:00I guess it really depends on how people interpret ...I guess it really depends on how people interpret it.<br /><br />I was taught the notion that Judaism takes basic urges and desires, and provides a way for them to be "elevated" and bring holiness down into the world.<br /><br />Hunger is basic, but keeping kosher and preparing food for Shabbat and holidays turns cooking and eating into a holy experience.<br /><br />Sex is basic, but keeping taharat hamishphocha (laws regulating the timing of sexual relations) and keeping it within marriage turns it into a holy experience too.<br /><br />In other words - it's not about ignoring the simple pleasures in life at all, but about harnessing them.<br /><br />Personally, I think that real love is an essential part of marriage, and that it's really powerful when a couple love each other and are focused on the same spiritual goals. The Torah itself talks about Isaac loving Rebecca, even though it was a shidduch, and also talks about intimacy as a husband "knowing" his wife.<br /><br />JRKmommyLaw momhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01859590966207623757noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5110120806388167738.post-5085714374799058152011-08-02T13:09:48.300-04:002011-08-02T13:09:48.300-04:00Cripes, I just wrote a whole essay and blogger thr...Cripes, I just wrote a whole essay and blogger threw it out. SIIIGGH.<br /><br />I will keep it brief. You can't use that Pirkei Avot for what you are trying for. That mishna is talking about an empty love that has nothing rooted in anything meaningful other than something that is very limited and not meant to last. The mishna actually works against you because the goal of marriage is 1) its not good for man to be alone 2) that once married, there be a greater goal to reach TOGEHTER. Both, cognizantly, know they are reaching for something limitless and meaningful that ends up enhancing their over all life. THe mishna you are quoting would work had it been the man only loving his wife for sex and her looks, which ultimately wains. <br /><br />Regarding relaxation: Lets say you are right, so what? Nobody relaxes forever. They relax to regain energy for a greater purpose afterward. So what do you care for what purpose they are relaxing......as long as they are actually relaxing.<br /><br />Regarding love: Love is primary, but its obviously not the only important component. You have to see if you can build a home with this person. Judaism, I believe deals with the practical considerations, but it doesn't throw out love like its meaningless.<br /><br />>On a more global level, this concept of a singular life purpose effectively replaces normal human thoughts and emotions.<br /><br />But this "singular life purpose" as you call it is ALL encompassing. It helps deal with love, hate, friendship, society, war, business etc. Sheeesh. It's not like we are dealing with a people that JUST want to collect stamps or attend Star Trek conventions. <br /><br />Seriously, this post seems you are just fishing for something to be critical at.Holy Hyraxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17704030181702087485noreply@blogger.com